Letter To The Senator
Dear Senator Argenziano,
I am writing to request a copy of the minutes taken at the March 28th, 2006 meeting held in your office regarding the Rainbow River Ranch development in Dunnellon Florida. As you are aware, the Florida Sunshine Law requires the recording of minutes of such meetings, whether they be formal or informal.
In the interest of an informed electorate, I believe that these minutes will be very informative to my readers, and the citizens of Dunnellon.
Thank you very much.
Robert R. Burke
Publisher
Dunnellon Online
And the Senator's Reply....
You are incorrect. The Sunshine Law does not apply to this type of meeting of
a legislator. There was only one legislator in the room. I put that meeting
together as a courtesy to try to find resolution to a local problem. Some in
the room wanted me to do things I had no jurisdiction to do. Like deny a permit
for boat ramps. I cannot do that. I do not have the power to do that. All I
can do is make sure that ALL parties follow the rules and the law. That is
what I did. You can ask Jack Dennis of the Rainbow River Conservation INC.
what did and did not happen at that meeting.
Nancy
And our reply......
Madam Senator,
In point of fact, you are the one who is incorrect. To quote the information on the Florida Attorney General's website regarding the parameters of the Sunshine Law, I quote:
Q. What are the requirements of the Sunshine law?
A. The Sunshine law requires that 1) meetings of boards or commissions must be open to the public; 2) reasonable notice of such meetings must be given, and 3) minutes of the meeting must be taken.
Q. What agencies are covered under the Sunshine Law?
A. The Government-in-the-Sunshine Law applies to "any board or commission of any state agency or authority or of any agency or authority of any county, municipal corporation or political subdivision." Thus, it applies to public collegial bodies within the state at both the local as well as state level. It applies equally to elected or appointed boards or commissions.
Q. What qualifies as a meeting?
A. The Sunshine law applies to all discussions or deliberations as well as the formal action taken by a board or commission. The law, in essence, is applicable to any gathering, whether formal or casual, of two or more members of the same board or commission to discuss some matter on which foreseeable action will be taken by the public board or commission. There is no requirement that a quorum be present for a meeting to be covered under the law.
As you can plainly see, a meeting between a Florida State Senator, representatives of two State agencies (D.C.A. and D.E.P.), the mayor of Dunnellon and a town councilman (both elected officials) is clearly covered under Florida's Sunshine Law.
Am I to assume by your response that there were no minutes taken at the meeting? It is my understanding that the Florida Sunshine Law was written specifically to cover meetings such as this one.
Again, if I am 'incorrect', please enlighten me.
Cordially,
Robert R. Burke
Dunnellon Online
www.dunnellononline.com
And the Senator's Reply.......
Dear Mr. Burke:
The Attorney General’s website addresses and describes Florida’s sunshine law, namely, section 286.011(1), Florida Statutes. That law applies generally to boards and commissions of any state and local agency or authority. That law does NOT apply to state employees or to a member of the Legislature who attends a meeting at which public business is discussed. You may not like that answer, and you may not accept that answer, but Mr. Burke, that is the law. If you want a further explanation, or want to increase your level of understanding of Florida’s sunshine law, I invite you either phone Patricia Gleason, the Assistant Attorney General who updates the website you referred to at (850) 245-0157, or you can write to her at The Office of the Attorney General, PL 01, The Capitol, Tallahassee, FL 32399. Furthermore, I was not, and am not, legally responsible for keeping minutes of the meeting that you are referring to. Finally, please note that members of the Florida Legislature are covered by separate open meetings and meeting notice provisions. In the Florida Senate, it is Senate Rule 1.43 and 1.44, both available for you to read on the Florida Senate website. If you read these two rules, you will conclude, as did I, that the meeting that you are referring to was not and is not covered by the Senate’s open government rules.
Nancy Argenziano
State Senator
District 3
Well, that's that!
Not!
At least I have risen to the level of "Mr." I am flattered, but not deterred. I am not a lawyer, but then, neither is the Senator. I will refer the matter to the State Attorney General's office, and get their opinion on who is right. Should it prove that I am indeed wrong about the Sunshine Law, I will apologize publicly to the honorable Senator.
If, however, this 'casual' meeting was a violation of the Sunshine Law, I will press the AG's office for a full investigation of the meeting, the participants, and all entities involved in the Rainbow River Ranch proposal. The Rainbow river is far too precious to sit idly by and watch it ruined.
Editor
Our Letter to The Attorney General's Office, May 3rd, 2006
May 3, 2006
Dear Ms. Gleason,
I am writing to inquire about a possible violation of Florida’s Sunshine Law. There is a very
contentious proposed development in Dunnellon, in Marion County, called the Rainbow River Ranch.
The proposal calls for either 350 or 450 luxury homes to be built on ecologically-sensitive land
bordering the Rainbow River. It also calls for either 28 or 32 new boat docks to be constructed on the river, and clear-cutting of old-growth trees along the river.
The advancement of this project has been done without proper public input or notification, and
championed by the town’s mayor and city council.
Recently, a meeting was held in the capitol office of Senator Nancy Argenziano, attended by the
senator, the developer’s representative, the town mayor and a city council member, and
representatives of the D.E.P. and the D.C.A. No proper announcement of the meeting was made until days before the meeting. There were no minutes taken at this meeting, and the only information
available about what transpired consists of hearsay, which is contradictory.
As I interpret the Sunshine Law from the AG’s website, this meeting was covered by the provisions of the Sunshine Law. Senator Argenziano disagrees, positing that she is immune in this case, and only bound by the rules of the State Senate. I have included my correspondence with the senator here:
Dear Senator Argenziano,
I am writing to request a copy of the minutes taken at the March 28th, 2006 meeting held in your
office regarding the Rainbow River Ranch development in Dunnellon Florida. As you are aware, the
Florida Sunshine Law requires the recording of minutes of such meetings, whether they be formal or informal.
In the interest of an informed electorate, I believe that these minutes will be very informative to my
readers, and the citizens of Dunnellon.
Thank you very much.
Robert R. Burke
Publisher
Dunnellon Online
And the Senator's Reply....
You are incorrect. The Sunshine Law does not apply to this type of meeting of
a legislator. There was only one legislator in the room. I put that meeting
together as a courtesy to try to find resolution to a local problem. Some in
the room wanted me to do things I had no jurisdiction to do. Like deny a permit
for boat ramps. I cannot do that. I do not have the power to do that. All I
can do is make sure that ALL parties follow the rules and the law. That is
what I did. You can ask Jack Dennis of the Rainbow River Conservation INC.
what did and did not happen at that meeting.
Nancy
And our reply......
Madam Senator,
In point of fact, you are the one who is incorrect. To quote the information on the Florida Attorney
General's website regarding the parameters of the Sunshine Law, I quote:
Q. What are the requirements of the Sunshine law?
A. The Sunshine law requires that 1) meetings of boards or commissions must be open to the public; 2) reasonable notice of such meetings must be given, and 3) minutes of the meeting must be taken.
Q. What agencies are covered under the Sunshine Law?
A. The Government-in-the-Sunshine Law applies to "any board or commission of any state agency or authority or of any agency or authority of any county, municipal corporation or political subdivision."
Thus, it applies to public collegial bodies within the state at both the local as well as state level. It
applies equally to elected or appointed boards or commissions.
Q. What qualifies as a meeting?
A. The Sunshine law applies to all discussions or deliberations as well as the formal action taken by a board or commission. The law, in essence, is applicable to any gathering, whether formal or casual, of two or more members of the same board or commission to discuss some matter on which foreseeable action will be taken by the public board or commission. There is no requirement that a quorum be present for a meeting to be covered under the law.
As you can plainly see, a meeting between a Florida State Senator, representatives of two State
agencies (D.C.A. and D.E.P.), the mayor of Dunnellon and a town councilman (both elected officials) is clearly covered under Florida's Sunshine Law.
Am I to assume by your response that there were no minutes taken at the meeting? It is my
understanding that the Florida Sunshine Law was written specifically to cover meetings such as this
one.
Again, if I am 'incorrect', please enlighten me.
Cordially,
Robert R. Burke
Dunnellon Online
And the Senator's Reply.......
Dear Mr. Burke:
The Attorney General’s website addresses and describes Florida’s sunshine law, namely, section
286.011(1), Florida Statutes. That law applies generally to boards and commissions of any state and
local agency or authority. That law does NOT apply to state employees or to a member of the
Legislature who attends a meeting at which public business is discussed. You may not like that answer, and you may not accept that answer, but Mr. Burke, that is the law. If you want a further explanation, or want to increase your level of understanding of Florida’s sunshine law, I invite you either phone Patricia Gleason, the Assistant Attorney General who updates the website you referred to at (850) 245-0157, or you can write to her at The Office of the Attorney General, PL 01, The Capitol, Tallahassee, FL 32399. Furthermore, I was not, and am not, legally responsible for keeping minutes of the meeting that you are referring to. Finally, please note that members of the Florida Legislature are covered by separate open meetings and meeting notice provisions. In the Florida Senate, it is Senate Rule 1.43 and 1.44, both available for you to read on the Florida Senate website. If you read these two rules, you will conclude, as did I, that the meeting that you are referring to was not and is not covered by the Senate’s open government rules.
Nancy Argenziano
State Senator
District 3
The Reply from the Attorney General's office, May 3, 2006:
Dear Mr. Burke: Thank you for your correspondence regarding whether the
Sunshine Law applies to legislators.. While the Attorney General's Office
is not authorized to issue legal advice to private citizens, I am asking
Ms. Phillips to forward a portion of the Sunshine Manual which summarizes
court decisions holding that the Sunshine Law does not apply to the
Legislature. Instead, access to meetings of legislators is governed by
a separate constitutional amendment. Because this point is not addressed
in the "freqequntly asked questions" you located at our website, we
will take steps to clarify the information provided there. Thank you for
bringing this to our attention. Sincerely, Pat Gleason
UPDATE:
So, the vaunted Sunshine Law does not apply to state legislators. I was wrong. I apologize to Senator Argenziano, as promised. In her latest e-mail, she made that clear, citing Senate Rules 1.43 and 1.44.
Wait a minute..... I just read Senate rules 1.43 and 1.44. It seems that they only deal with 'legislative
business', for the purpose of discussions 'concerning measures to address security,
espionage, sabotage, attack and other acts of terrorism."
So it would seem that when the honorable senator called this meeting between the mayor, the
councilman, the RRR representative, the D.C.A. and the D.E.P., she was there to discuss the growing terrorist threat in Dunnellon! Could they have uncovered a plot to sabotage the train station? Perhaps there was a real and present danger of the Rainbow River being used by terrorists in canoes, their dastardly goal..... the Nelson Bridge!!!
Thank God we have such a dedicated public servant looking out for our homeland security. I have
long suspected that Dunnellon was a target for Al-Qaeda, ever since that secret terrorist training
camp was discovered in Lake Tropicana last fall.
Apparently this matter is not in the scope of the State Attorney General's office, but I still plan to
ask for a full investigation by the Florida Senate Ethics Committee. The fact that senator Argenziano
tried to indemnify herself by citing these two senate rules is, in itself, a breach of ethics.
I will also contact the State Attorney about a possible violation of the Sunshine Law by the mayor and the city councilman. They have subpoena power, and can compel those individuals to testify under oath, under threat of prosecution for perjury.
For those of you who have not become comatose by this point, I have attached the two senate rules
that senator Argenziano cited. You may judge for yourself if they cover the March 28th meeting.
Stay tuned....................
1.43—Open meetings
(1) All meetings at which legislative business is discussed between
more than two (2) members of the legislature shall be open to the public
except:
(a) At the sole discretion of the President of the Senate, after
consultation with appropriate law enforcement, public
health, emergency management and/or security authorities,
those portions of meetings of a select committee, committee,
or subcommittee, concerning measures to address security,
espionage, sabotage, attack and other acts of terrorism.
(b) Discussions on the floor while the Senate is in session and
discussions among Senators in a committee room during
committee meetings shall be deemed to be in compliance
with this Rule.
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(2) All meetings shall be subject to appropriate order and decorum at
the discretion of the person conducting the meeting.
(3) For purposes of this Rule “legislative business” is defined as issues
pending before, or upon which foreseeable action is reasonably expected to
be taken by, the Senate, a Senate committee, or Senate subcommittee.
1.44—Notice required for certain meetings
(1) A written notice of the following meetings at which legislative
business is to be discussed shall be filed with the Secretary of the Senate.
While the Legislature is not in regular or special session and during the
first fifty (50) days of a regular session, the notice shall be filed not later
than four (4) hours before the scheduled time of the meeting. After the fiftieth
(50th) day of a regular session and during a special session, the notice
shall be filed not later than two (2) hours before the scheduled time of the
meeting:
(a) Meetings of the President of the Senate (or a Senator designated
to represent the President) with the Governor, or with
the Speaker of the House of Representatives (or a representative
designated to represent the Speaker);
(b) Meetings of a majority of the Senators who constitute the
membership of any Senate committee or subcommittee;
(c) Steering meetings of the Chair of the Committee on
Appropriations with the chair of the standing subcommittees
of the Committee on Appropriations; and
(d) Meetings called by the President or the President’s
designee, of a majority of the chairs of the Senate’s standing
committees.
(2) Notices of meetings required by Rule 1.44(1) shall be filed by or at
the direction of the person(s) at whose call the meeting is convened; shall
state the date, time, and place of the meeting; shall contain a brief description
of the general subject matter scheduled to be discussed. In the case of
a meeting required to be noticed pursuant to this Rule, if the meeting is to
take place at or after 10:00 p.m. then the notice must be delivered to the
Secretary by 5:00 p.m. Notices of such meetings shall appear in the daily
calendar.
(3) In the event the times required for notice under Rule 1.44(1) are
not sufficient to permit publication in a daily or interim calendar, the
Secretary shall post a copy of each such notice on a bulletin board provided
for this purpose in the public corridor leading to the Senate Chamber.
The Secretary of the Senate shall make a diligent effort to give actual
notice to the representatives of the press of all noncalendared meeting
notices posted.
(4) Political caucuses are exempt from the foregoing notice requirements.
Political caucuses shall be open to the public in accordance with
Rule 1.43 and noticed in accordance with this Rule when issues then pending
before, or upon which foreseeable action is reasonably expected to be
taken by, the Senate, a Senate committee, or a Senate subcommittee are
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discussed. Political caucuses held for the sole purpose of designating a
President, a President Pro Tempore, a Minority Leader, or a Minority
Leader Pro Tempore need not be open or noticed.
1.45—Violations of Rules on open meetings and notice
Intentional violations of Rules 1.43 and 1.44 constitute violations of the
Rules regulating legislative ethics and conduct and shall be subject to the
procedures and penalties prescribed in Rule 1.42.
(3) Except for records specifically required by law or Senate Rule to be
filed or retained, district office records and constituents’ records may be
retained by the district office until those records become obsolete, at which
point they may be otherwise disposed of or destroyed.
(4) Public records, not exempted from public disclosure, created or
received by the President, President Pro Tempore, or Secretary of the
Senate shall be retained by that officer as specifically required by law or
Senate Rule until transferred to the Division of Library and Information
Services of the Department of State via its Legislative Library Division.
Records not transferred may be otherwise disposed of or destroyed.
(5) The Secretary shall, with the approval of the President, establish
a reasonable fee for copies of public legislative records not exempted from
public disclosure. Such fees shall be based upon the actual cost of duplication
of the record and shall include the material and supplies used to
duplicate the record but not the labor cost or overhead cost associated with
such duplication. If the nature or volume of records requested to be
inspected or copied is such as to require extensive use of information technology
resources or extensive clerical or supervisory assistance by employees
of the Senate, a special service charge in addition to the actual cost of
duplication may be imposed. Such special service charge shall be reasonable
and based on the cost incurred for the extensive use of information
technology resources or the labor cost of employees providing the service
that is actually incurred by the Senate or attributable to the Senate for the
clerical and supervisory assistance required. However, when obtained from
the Office of the Secretary, a standing committee, standing subcommittee,
or select committee, there shall be no charge for a single copy of a bill other
than a general appropriations bill, or for a single copy of any other public
record required by law or Senate Rule to be created.
(6) Once the retention period for a public record, not exempted from
public disclosure, has expired, the public record may be otherwise disposed
of or destroyed. A public record need not be retained if it is published or
retained by another legislative office. Only one (1) copy of a public record
need be retained, additional copies of that record may be destroyed at any
time. In the case of mass mailings, only one (1) representative copy of the
mailing, or an abstract, need be retained.
(7) For the purpose of this Rule, a member’s district office shall include
the offices each member retains for the transaction of official legislative
business in his or her respective district and the offices located in the
Senate Office Building or the Capitol in Tallahassee assigned to each
member.
(8) The following public records are exempt from inspection and copying:
(a) Records, or information contained therein, held by the legislative
branch of government which, if held by an agency as
21
defined in section 119.011, Florida Statutes, or any other
unit of government, would be confidential or exempt from
the provisions of section 119.07(1), Florida Statutes, or otherwise
exempt from public disclosure, and records or information
of the same type held by the Legislature.
(b) A formal complaint about a member or officer of the
Legislature or about a lobbyist and the records relating to
the complaint, until the complaint is dismissed, a determination
as to probable cause has been made, a determination
that there are sufficient grounds for review has been made
and no probable cause panel is to be appointed, or the
respondent has requested in writing that the President of
the Senate or the Speaker of the House of Representatives
make public the complaint or other records relating to the
complaint, whichever occurs first.
(c) A legislatively produced draft, and a legislative request for
a draft, of a bill, resolution, memorial, or legislative rule,
and an amendment thereto, which is not provided to any
person other than the member or members who requested
the draft, an employee of the Legislature, a contract
employee or consultant retained by the Legislature, or an
officer of the Legislature.